Sunday, August 13, 2006

النباتيون



من هم النباتيون؟ أغلبنا يعرف التعريف البسيط للمصطلح, و هم من لا يأكلوا اللحوم. و لكن بجانب هذا السؤال يوجد اسئله كثير متعلقه منها و منها لماذا لا يأكل هؤلاء الناس اللحوم, و هل هم أرحم منا على الحيوان, و هل نعرف الجوانب السياسيه و الدينيه و البيئيه المتعلقه بالموضوع.

تعريف النباتيين: لا يوجد مصطلح ثابت للنباتيين, و ذلك لأختلاف أفكارهم, مع اتفاقهم فى رفضهم لأكل اللحوم, و ذلك يقودنا الى النقطه التاليه

أنواع النباتيين:

  1. نباتى كلى: و هم من يرفضون أكل اللحوم الحمراء و الطيور و الأسماك, و منهم :
    • من يأكلوا الخضار نيئاً فقط
    • اللاكتو نباتى, و هو مصطلح يعنى هؤلاء الذين لا يأكلون اللحوم و لكنهم يستخدمون المنتجات الحيوانيه
    • الفيجانس, و عاداتهم قريبه من عادات المسيحين الأرثودكس فى أعيادهم, لأنهم لا يستعملوا أى منتج حيوانى, بيض, لبن, أو بروتين و خلافه, و حتى الأكل النباتى الذى يحتوى على مواد مستخلصه من حيوانات, و المنتجات الجلديه أيضاً.

  1. نباتى جزئى: و هم من يأكلوا بعض أنواع اللحوم و يرفضوا بعضها, لأسباب دينيه أو صحيه

الأسباب التى تدفع النباتيين الى سلوك هذا المنهج هى :

1- دينيه: 70% من نباتيين العالم هنود, بوذيين أو هندوس, و هم يرون أن قتل حيوان فى مقام قتل انسان, لأننا كلنا مخلوقات الله, أما فى المسيحيه, فلا يوجد تحريم للحوم, و مع ذلك ذكرت الكاتبه الانجليزيه كارين أرمسترونج فى كتاب اسمه تاريخ الله, مقوله عن المسيح مفادها, "لحوم تأكل اللحوم, يا لهذا العدوان". أما الإسلام و اليهوديه فهم يحرموا أكل لحم الخنزير, بالاضافه الى أن كل الأديان تحثنا على الرفق بالحيوان, و فى حديث شريف دعانا الرسول صلى الله عليه و سلم الى الإعتدال فى الطعام.

2- صحيه: حيث يرى الكثير من النباتيين أن أضرار اللحوم أكثر من منافعها, و أن نسبة المواد المفيده فى اللحوم قليله, و لا تحتاج الى أكل هذه الكميات الكبيره من اللحوم للحصول عليها, و يمكن الحصول عليها من مصادر أخرى. طبعاً بالإضافه الى هؤلاء المصابون بأمراض من أكل اللحوم مثل النقرس

3- أخلاقيه: و هو أهم سبب لتجنب أكل اللحوم, بإعتبار ما يحدث للحيوانات فى المذابح قبل الذبح من تعذيب بربرى ليس له مبرر, و أو معامله غايه فى السوء للحيوانات فى مزارع التربيه, حيث تعيش أنواع من الدواجن مثلاً فى بطاريات لا يتعدى حجمها 30 x 30 سم طوال حياتها, أو أبقار فى مزارع لا ترى ضوء الشمس, أو فى ظروف غايه فى القذاره و الأمراض, و هو ما يصل الينا فى النهايه كمستهلكين للحوم, قد يبدوا فى كلامى هذا رقه زائده, و لكنى أرجوا بعض الصبر. كنت أظن أن أفلام الرعب هى التى ترى فيها بشر تُذبح, و لم أعرف انى من الممكن أن أصاب بنفس الخوف و أنا أشاهد فيلم قصير عن مذبح البساتين, و ما يحدث للحيوانات من تعذيب و معامله قاسيه قبل الذبح, تألمت لأن الإسلام قد وضع شروطاً معينه قبل الذبح منها الرفق بالحيوان, و عرض ماء عليه قبل ذبحه, و أن لا يتألم و هو يذبح, و التكبير قبل الذبح, و من الواضح أن هذا المذبح لا يتبع أى من هذه التعاليم ما عدا التكبير قبل الذبح, و هو ما يجعل اللحوم فى مصر من وجهه نظرى غير مذبوحه على الشريعه الإسلاميه. أما فى الغرب فحدٌث ولا حرج, الدواجن على سبيل المثال تقضى أغلبها حياتها فى قفص لا تستطيع حتى رفع جناح, يقول بعض المدافعون عن حقوق الحيوان, أن الدجاجه هى أكثر حيوان يظلم يومياً على وجه الأرض, و كما يقول النباتيون من فضلك meet your meat. و لهذا الأمر أيضاً بعُد سياسى لوجود الكثير من منظمات حقوق الحيوان فى الخارج التى تطالب بالكف عن تجارب الحيوان, و عدم استهلاك اللحوم بهذه الكميات المهوله و أيضاً التوقف عن صيد الحيوانات من أجل اللهو. من أشهر نشطاء الحيوانات من يدعى بيتر يونج, هو يقضى الآن مده حبس سنتين فى سجن فيدرالى لأنه حرر حيوانات من مزرعه للفراء.

4- بيئيه: يرى أصحاب هذا الفكر أن تربية الحيوانات بهذه الكميات الضخمه يؤدى الى اختلال التوازن البيئى, و استهلاكهم لكميات كبيره من المحاصيل, كان من المفروض أن تستخدم فى أغراض أخرى مثل إرسال هذه الأطعمه الى الدول الفقيره التى تعانى من مجاعات. كما ان الفضلات تؤذى كل من يعيش حول المزارع

5- الخوف من المرض: كثير من الحيوانات تمثل أوعيه جيده لنمو الأمراض, و بعض الحيوانات قد تؤذى الانسان عند أكلها و ان لم تكن مريضه. مثل جنون البقر و انفلونزا الطيور و مرض الفم و القدم (Foot and Mouth Disease FMD) عند الأغنام. يتراوح عدد الدجاج فى مزرعه متوسطة الحجم ما بين مائه الى مائه و خمسون ألف, يموت منهم يومياً حوالى مائتان و خمسون,بسبب ظروف التهويه و المعيشه السيئه, و تضطر باقى الحيوانات الى العيش مع جثث اخوانها (المتعفنه احياناً ) بضعه ايام الى أن يتم اكتشافها و رميها. و لأن الدجاج من أكثر الحيوانات عرضه للأمراض يتم حقنهم بكميات من المضادات الحيويه و تصل الينا عن طريق أكلها. و أثبتت فعلاً التجارب خطر الدجاج بسبب امراضها أو بسبب الأمصال أو الأطعمه المعالجه كيميائياً فى جسم الدجاج[1] .

أهم المآخذ على النباتيين: يدٌعى المعارضين للإتجاه النباتى أن البروتينات الحيوانيه لا توجد الإ فى الحيوانات فقط, و لهذا لزم أكل الحيوانات, و بالذات الأسماك, و لا تستطيع البدائل النباتيه مثل فول الصويا تعويضها. و لكن الحقيقه أن البدائل النباتيه تستطيع تعويض أغلب اللحوم, أما بالنسبه للأسماك فيستطيع المرء أن أن يتناوله بأقل القليل, و الدليل على هذا النباتيين أنفسهم الذين فى أغلب الأحوال أحسن صحه ممن يأكلون اللحوم بشراهه

الموضوع: تُستهلك اللحوم فى مصر بكميات ضخمه على الرغم من انخفاض مستوى متوسط الدخل المصرى مقارنةً بالعديد من الدول الأخرى, و يعتبر وجود اللحم على مائدة الطعام شىء أساسى, و غيابه أمر مشين, خاصةً إذا كان بالمنزل ضيوف. حاولت فى العديد من المناسبات التناقش مع أصدقاء لى فى هذا الأمر, و إتُهمت بأغرب الإتهامات, و منها السطحيه و السذاجه و الفراغ, و هذه هى بعض المناقشات التى دارت بيننا.

س: انتا كده بتِكفر و بتحرم ما حلله الله

ج: أنا لم أحرم شىء, و كونى أرفض أكل اللحم لا يعنى انى أحرمها, و لكن ليس من المعقول أن أُجبر على أكلها حتى أكون مؤمناً, و لكنى أرفض أكلها فى الظروف لحاليه التى تعامل فيها الحيوانات.

س: البروتين الموجود فى اللحوم لا يوجد فى أى بديل آخر, و لذا لزم أكل اللحم

ج: و هل نحن كمصريين نملك عادات غذائيه غايه فى المثاليه, و هل نأكل يومياً خضروات و فاكهه و سلطه خضراء, الذين يعُتبروا غذائياً على نفس مستوى الأهميه, نحن نبرر فقط شراهتنا تجاه اللحوم

س: يعنى انتا سايب الناس اللى بتموت فى فلسطين و العراق, و زعلان أوى على فرخه

ج: من الممكن أن يهتم و يدافع المرء عن أكثر من قضيه, و لا يعنى هذا أنى أهتم بالحيوانات أكثر من الإنسان, و لكنى أهتم بالروح التى خلقها الله, و لا أرى ما المانع فى انى أقف فى سبيل قضيه أؤمن بها, و إذا كان للبشر أمل فى الحياه بسبب دفاعهم عن أنفسهم و مناصرة آخرين لهم , فالحيوانات ليس لها من يدافع عنها, و ليس لها أى أمل فى الحياه, و كأننا نسينا تماماً ما وصانا به الرسول صلى الله و عليه و سلم و سلوكياته تجاه الرفق بالحيوان, مع أننا نلجأ للدين فى كل صغيره و كبيره

أرى فى مصر بصوره دائمه مظاهر قسوه على الحيوان لا يحرك لها أحد ساكناً, منها الأطفال فى الشارع الذين يلعبون بالقطط أو الكلاب المولوده, و فى أحيان كثيره يقتلوها بالخطأ, و فى عيد الأضحى يتجمع الأطفال حول الجزار ليشاهدوه و هو يذبح الخروف أو البقره, فهل هذا من المفترض أن يكون منظر بهيج ليشاهده الأطفال, و ما هذه القسوه الغريبه التى أحلت بنا تجاه مخلوقات الله.

كنت أتمشى منذ بضعه أيام مع علاء السادس عشر عندما ذكر لى مثالاً ذكياً, إذا اصطاد رجلاً فى غابه حيواناً, و بدأ فى تقطيعه بسكين, و أكله نيء, فسنقول عليه شخص همجى و بربرى, أما اذا دخل شخص ما يرتدى بذلةً مطعم, و طلب قطعه لحم نصف مطهيه, و أكلها بالشوكه و السكين فغالباً سنوصفه بالحضاره و الرقى. لا أعرف لماذا و لكن يوجد دائماً شىء فى اللحوم يجعل غريزتنا الحيوانيه تظهر على السطح لحظه أكل اللحوم, و هو إحساس لا يشعر به الإنسان عند أكل الخضروات مثلاً, و لكن دائماً توجد فينا كبشر هذه الغريزه القويه التى تدفعنا الى الشراهه فى أكل اللحم.

خاتمه: نحتاج الى إعادة النظر فى الكثير من الأشياء, منها عاداتنا الغذائيه, و نظرتنا للحيوان. و يجب أن نعلم أن الله لم يخلق الكون للإنسان فقط, و إنما خلق مخلوقات أخرى لزم علينا إحترامها, لأنها أولاً نعمه من الله, و ثانياً لأنها تمنحنا الحياه. و يجب أن لا نسطح قضيه مثل هذه و أو نتغاضى عنها, و إذا كنا سلبيين تجاه أغلب قضايانا, بتبريرنا انها صعبه أو مستحيله الحل, فأنا أظن أن مثل هذه القضيه, ليست على نفس الدرجه من الصعوبه, هذا لو آمنا فعلاً أ ن سلوكياتنا تجاه الحيوانات هى عنف غير مبرر, أو سلبيه لأن الأمر لا يعنينا من قريب أو بعيد, و علاقتنا بالحيوان الذى يذُبح هى رؤيته فى شكل قطعه لحم مطهيه على المائده.

مصادر:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarian

http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp

http://www.tierbefreier.de/home.html

http://www.peta.org/

264 Comments:

At 3:10 PM, Blogger tota said...

فكرة غريبة الا انها تستحق الاحترام
لو سمحتلى اضافة بعض المعلومات
انوه فقط ان مجزر البساتين يعد احد افضل المجازر فلم ترى سيادتك مجزر السيدة زينب قبل اغلاقه ولو رايته لتحولت الى نباتيا بالاكراه لما تراه من تعذيب فعلى بمعنى الكلمة وتلذذ غير عادى من الوحوش الجزارين
التكبير فى المجزر مرة واحدة على الكل وليس على كل حيوان هكذا يصبح امر حلال او حرام منتهى
FMD
مرض يصيب المجترات وليس الاغنام فقط ومصر موبؤة بمعنى الكلمة
withdrwal time
نظرا لجهل العديد من المربيين وغياب الرقابة لا يتم العمل بفترة الرفع المذكورة على كل دواءوعليه نحصل على كافة المتبقيات من جسم الحيوان او الطائر الينا وخاصة فى المضادات الحيوية المتشابه فى النوع بيننا وبينهم ولذلك تكونت مناعات فى جسم الانسان لهذه الادوية واصبحت الميكروبات غير حساسة لها

الحيوانات بصفة خاصة فى مصر لا يتم النظر اليها بأى نظرة انسانية وليس حظها بأوفر من الارقى نوعا وهو الانسان وهذا لسوء الاحوال الاقتصادية
وتدنيها عن اى دولة نامية

اعتبرت مصر اسوء دولة تعاملت مع مشكلة انفلونزا الطيور على مستوى العالم بشهادة منظمة الصحة والاغذية العالمية وهذا ان دل يدل على سوء التعامل وعدم توفر ادنى وسائل الحفاظ على الصحة العامة
الامراض المنتشرة لا تعد ولا تحصى والالم ابشع من ان تتخيله والصندوق الاسود لا يتكلم ولا اهه الم واحدة
الان يمكنك ان تصبح نباتيا دون ان تشعر بأى تانيب ضمير فانت مكره لا بطل
تحياتى على الجرأة فى تناول هذا الموضوع

 
At 12:35 AM, Blogger علاء السادس عشر said...

عزيزى معتز
التدوينة فيها معلومات وفى نفس الوقت مكتوبة بطريقة جذابة جداً على فكرة فى مصر أحياناً يوجد أرتباط بين ممارسة الرجولة وممارسة العنف فالأطفال يبدوء بممارسة العنف ضد الحيوانات كتدريب للمستقبل لممارسة العنف ضد الآخرين والجزار الممسك بالسكينة والغارق فى دماء الضحية هو مثال للقوة فى بعض الشرائح الأجتماعية.
عزمك الأسبوع ده على أكلة فول صويا محصلتش
العزيزة توتا
أضطررت للأبتسام عندما قرأت الجملة الأولى من تعليقك وهى( فكرة غريبة) الأبتسامة هنا بسبب المقارنة الفورية التى دارت فى رأسى بين المجتمع المصرى والمجتمع الألمانى حيث يقيم معتز لا توجد أحصائيات ولكن رأيى أن حوالى ربع الشعب الألمانى نباتيون بينما على الأقال عشرة بالمائة كانوا نباتيين فى وقت ما ,بينما الربع الثانى إن لم يكن أكثر يتناول اللحم مرة أو مرتان فى الأسبوع على أقصى تقدير ويشع فى نفس الوقت بالذنب والباقى من الألمان يتناولوا اللحوم بمبالغة شديدة لاتختلف عن مصر.تخيلى أن سيدة تترك صديقها لأنها نباتية بينما هو يأكل اللحم و شخص يشرط على أصدقائه عدم أكل اللحوم فى حضوره .فى زياراتى لمصر يجب أن أوضح فى كل مناسبة طعاميةأننى لست مريض ولكننى نباتى وبالطبع يقابل التبرير بهزة رأس ووجه مملوء بالتعجب وأحياناً الصدمة.

 
At 4:36 AM, Blogger tota said...

العزيز علاء
عارف ليه بدأت بفكرة غريبة
لمجرد ان توقيت البوست يتفق مع توقيت مجازر لبنان
ولولا حرصى على مشاعر معتز لبدأت بهذا النقض
لا الومك يا معتز اللوم موجه لمن هم يتألمون ويتعذبون للحيوان ولم تعد تؤثر فيهم المذابح الانسانية
وكيان العالم اصبح منفصل كل فرد يعيش فى عالم خاص به وهذا اكبر دليل
تحياتى

 
At 12:12 PM, Blogger motaz elmasry said...

عزيزى علاء
انتا فعلاً لخصت الموضوع فى كلمتين مهمين قوى, العنف و الساديه هما مظهران مهمان فعلاً للرجوله, و اذا حاولت تجنب العنف فغالباً ستوصف بالجبن و الإستسلام, و أعتقد أن العنف فى المدارس من أهم الأمثله على ذلك, حيث تعتبر "الخناقات" نشاط أساسى شبه يومى, و الطفل يعامل بعنف فى المنزل, و فى المدرسه من الإداره و من أقرانه, لذا لزم عليه هو الآخر التحول الى وحش ليستطيع العيش فى هذه الغابه, لحسن الحظ يختفى الجزء الأكبر من هذا السلوك عندما يصل التلميذ الى المرحله الجامعيه, و لكن آثار العنف تبقى علامه داخله.
سعيد بتعليقك و صداقتك, و هاستنى منك أكله الفول الاسبوع اللى جاى

 
At 12:50 PM, Blogger motaz elmasry said...

العزيزه توتا
انتى بقا عايزهقعده مش كلمتين فى السريع
اه, أولاً انا أشكرك على المعلومات التى أضفتيها و على التصحيح, و لأصدقك القول, لم أكن أتخيل انه يوجد أسوأ مما شاهدته فى فيديو مجزر البساتين
أما بالنسبه الى توقيت البوست فقد قصدته الى حد بعيد للأسباب التاليه: اولاً أنا ذكرت رأيي فى بوست سابق فى موضوع لبنان, أرجو أن يسمح لك الوقت بقرائته, و أنا أهتم بالطبع بموضوع لبنان, و رأيي فى الموضوع, اننا ساهمنا فى قتل المدنيين اللبنانيين تماماً مثلما فعل الاسرائيليين. ثانياً: نحن لا نهتم لا بالفلسطينيين و لا باللبنانيين و لا بالروح البشريه, نحن نهتم أكثر بالكره الأعمى لأمريكا و إسرائيل, و إذا كنا فعلاً نهتم بالعرب و الآخرين كما ندعى فلماذا لم نخرج فى مظاهرات أيام الحرب الأهليه فى لبنان, أو الآن بسبب الحرب الدائره بين الشيعه و السنه فى العراق, , و فى السودان استمرت الحرب الأهليه الثانيه 23 عاماً لم نخرج فيهم فى مظاهره واحده و لم نعبر عن استيائنا, و بدأنا فقط فى التحرك عندما قررت أمريكا التدخل سياسياً لحل أزمه دارفور, و هل أبدى أحد منا تذمره أو اعتراضه طوال القرن الماضى على الحروب الأهليه المتعدده التى عصفت بأفريقيا؟ إذاً هل نؤمن فعلاً بأهميه الحياه البشريه أم هو كره نقى لأمريكا والسلام. ثالثاً: أنا لن أغضب و الله لو انتقدتينى انتقاداً مباشرا لو أردتى فنحن هنا لنتعلم جميعاً من بعضنا, و لكن اعذرينى فى السؤال,هل تعتقدى أنى لو كتبت بوست آخر أو مئه عن لبنان, فهل سيغير هذا من الأمر شيئاً؟ اذا كان أصلاً رأيي غير مهم بالمره اللهم الا ما بين من يقرئوا لى و أقرأ له, و فى هذه الحاله تعتبر تدوينه أخرى عن لبنان من وجهه نظرى هى مزايده صبيانيه على الوطنيه, و نحن فى مصر نملك فقط المنظار ذا اللون الأبيض و الأسود, فنحن نتحدث فى عن لبنان كل الوقت, و لو حاولت ابداء اهتمامى بموضوع آخر تصدر الفتوى الفوريه بأنى غير مبالى, لا أقِصدك بهذا الكلام والله و لكنى أتحدث عن طبيعه المناقشات فى وطننا الغالى, إذن فكل شخص يصنف الى وطنى و غير وطنى على حسب كثره تكراره للحديث عن القضيه.
رابعاً بالنسبه لمن يتأثرون بالمذابح الحيوانيه و لا يتأثرون بمثيلاتها الإنسانيه, فهذا الى حد بعيد غير صحيح, هم طبعاً يتأثروا و يبالوا, و لكن بسبب إنهم لا يعلمون شيئاً عن الموضوع, و هذا ذنبنا و ليس ذنبهم, و نتحجج فى كل وقت و حين بأن اليهود يسيطروا على الإعلام فى أمريكا, و هذا عذر أقبح من ذنب لأن الإستثمارات العربيه فى امريكا تفوق بمراحل مثيلتها اليهوديه, كما أن ليس كل يهود العالم متآمرين ضدنا و يعملون ضدنا وفق منظومه دقيقه كما يصور لنا خيالنا. آسف للإطاله و الخروج عن الموضوع, و أرجو دوام التواصل

 
At 1:48 PM, Blogger so7ab said...

العزيز جدا معتز

اولا انا بجد عجبانى فكرة البوست اوى وفيه شوية حاجات كده لفتة نظرى
من اول صورة النباتيين فى الافلام يعنى انا علاقتى بان النباتى ده شاب اهطل ونظره ضعيف ودمه تقيل ادام البطل الصايع اللى بياخد بمنتهى القدرة صاحبة النباتتى فى اخر الفيلم
الصورة ديه بدأت تتغير بعد ما قابلت ناس نباتيين ولقتهم زينا بالظبط

الفكرة التانية انى طول الوقت عندى تصور ان النباتى اكثر انسانية منى مش انو مش مهتم بالمجازر الانسانية ولا حاجة بس رغم كده هفضل اكل لحوم وكمان لانى عاشق السمك

موضوع الدبح فى العيد ادام الاطفال وكمان الاطفال يحطو اديهم فى الدم حاجة مرعبة وبجد مش عارف لحد امتى هنفضل نصدر القيم ديه لاطفالنا

احييك على التدوينة اللى بجد قربتنى اكتر من النباتيين وعجبنى اوى الاسئلة اللى انت كاتبها واجابتها فى اخر البوست

 
At 3:08 PM, Blogger tota said...

العزيز معتز
اعتز جدا جدا بروح الجرأة وتقبل النقض
هذا ليس بالطبع مدخلا لبداية نقض

بالفعل قرأت بوست لبنان قبل هذا البوست واعترف انى لا املك الجرأة على تجريد الاشياء فمازلت انحيازية عاطفية متعصبة ولو ان كلامك وليس انت فقط قد خلخل بعض النقاط بداخلى مما دفعنى للاحجام عن التعليق ففى الغالب لا اعلق الا اذا كنت مقتنعة بما اقول ولانى وقتها اصبت بحالة عدم اتزان والبركة فيك التزمت الصمت
اى بوست او اى كلام لن يغير من الواقع شىء ولكن عقيدة بعض منا ورأيه ممكن ان يزعزع عقيدة اخر لو شعر بمنطقية الفعل
سعيدة بالفعل بالتواصل معاك

ينتابنى شعور غريب منذ بدأت التعليق على المدونات
لا ادرى لماذا ولكن شعرت ببعض الحزبية والشللية فى المدونات
هل انا على حق ؟
من فضلك جاوب على السؤال ده بمنتهى الصراحة المعهودة
تحياتى

 
At 11:02 AM, Blogger motaz elmasry said...

عزيزى بسام
أشكرك على تعليقك الجميل ده
على فكره أنا مش نباتى أوى يعنى, أنا مباكلش لحمه حمراء, دواجن أو سمك 2-3 فى الشهر, بس انشاء الله هابطل دواجن قريب, أما السمك ماظنش انى هاقدر ابطله, عشان بحبه أوى زيك كده :)

 
At 11:17 AM, Blogger motaz elmasry said...

العزيزه توتا
لأكون صريحاً معكِ لم أفهم تماماً سؤالك بأنك اصبتِ ببعض الحزبيه الشلليه فى المدونات, لكنى سأحاول الاجابه قدر المستطاع
اذا كنتِ تقصدين أن المدونون يكونون جماعات ضد بعضهم البعض فهذا سؤال عويص. مع انخراطى فى عالم المدونات بدأت أرسم فى ذهنى صور للمدونين, و أحاول تشخيصهم, و نمت بينى و بينهم علاقه لا يعرفوا عنها شيئاً, و بالمثل هم فعلوا نفس الشىء معى من وجهه نظرهم بدون أن أدرى شيئاً, هذا شعور فضولى انسانى طبيعى, و من هذا المنطلق نبدأ فى التحمس لآراءالبعض, و نبدأ أحياناً العداء لآراء شخص آخر, بناء على رأيه الشخصى تجاه قضية, و هذا لا يعنى اننا سننحاز لرأى شخص نحبه لو اختلفنا معه, و أظن أن هذا هو أهم درس نتعلمه كلنا, أن الاختلاف فى الآراء لا يعنى الاختلاف الشخصى و العداوه, و هذه تعتبر سمه مهمه لأى مجتمع متقدم, و أنا سعيد لكونى هنا أتعلم من الآخرين, و بالفعل أميل شخصياً لآراء بعض المدونين و من وراءهم المدونين أنفسهم, و سأقف بجانب لو هوُجِموا فقط فى حالة اتفاقى معهم فى الرأى. ما أكرهه بشده هو النقد الهدام و اللفظ الجارح و تحويل اختلاف الآراء الى نقد شخصى, و لو نويتى تبنى التدوين كهوايه شخصيه أنصحك بالابتعاد عن مثل هؤلاء الناس لإستحاله النقاش معهم فى أغلب الأحوال
تحياتى و احترامى

 
At 11:26 AM, Blogger tota said...

العزيز معتز
انت اجبت على سؤالى بالفعل
فانا قلت انى شعرت بالحزبية والشللية فى بعض المدونات وانحياز بعض المدونيين لبعض بغض النظر عن الموضوع
وكانها علاقات شخصية والحقيقة ان الحديث لا يمس بأى حال من الاحوال الاشخاص انما اراء الاشخاص وفعلا اصبت بخيبة امل كبيرة من تفكير بعض المدونيين
وبعدها ادركت ان عالم المدونيين لا يختلف كثيرا عن العالم الخارجى فالاشخاص هى هى الاشخاص وبنفس ردود الافعال ولكن بحرية اكثر
لا انوى احتراف التدوين بل التعليق على التدوينات
مع خالص تحياتى

 
At 5:23 PM, Blogger motaz elmasry said...

العزيزه توتا
بينى و بينك انا بشوف مدونات عايزه الحرق, و بتعكس الواقع المرير اللى احنا عايشينه, ناس بتحاول انها تبين انها أكثر "تأسلماً", و ناس نازله شتيمه على الفاضى فى أمريكا وإسرائيل من غير ما يقولوا أى رأى مفيد فى أى حاجه, و ناس تانيه سمعتلها كلمتين على القهوه و طلعوا فوق كتبوهم على المدونه من غير أى مرجعيه علميه و لا أى حاجه اصلاً , أنا الحقيقه كبرت دماغى, مش بزور غير 5-6 مدونات لناس بحترم رأيها و بحب أقرالهم, و كان الله بالسر عليم على كده. بس أنا بتمنى ان الناس دى تبتدى تفكر شويه قبلما تكتب عشان المفروض ان المسأله هى مسأله كيف و ليس كم, علشان نقدر فعلاً نستفيد من بعض مش نقضيها شتايم و زعيق و صور ناس ميته و نهنهه و خلص الموضوع على كده. أما بالنسبه للناس الى بتدافع عن صحابهم المدونين و خلاص فده مش مهم, لأن فى التدوين كل واحد بياخد فرصته انه يقول كل اللى هوه عايزه من غير ما حد يقاطعه, يعنى حتى لو بتجادلى 20 واحد مع بعض عندك فرصه انك تكبسيهم لو معاكى الحجه الكافيه
و السلام ختام

 
At 4:15 PM, Blogger ahmad said...

جربت من ٣ سنوات أن أكون نباتيا.. و استطعت أن استمر كذلك لحوالي عامين .. إلى أن وجدت أن غالبية ما يوفره لي السوق الغذائي المصري هو:
١- الفول و الطعمية
١- البيتزا بالخضروات (لا احب البيتزا).... ،ـ
٣- المكرونات بأنواعها - أجدها مملة جدا
٤ - الكشري ، و هو ما أعشقة

و نظرا لقضائي اليوم كله في العمل،فاستمريت لعام و نصف آكل الفول و الطعمية و البطاطس و الكشري إلى أن تأذت نفسيتي
و أقلعت عن نباتيتي

و أؤكد أنه خلال فترتي النباتية كان ذهني أكثر حضورا ، جسدي أكثر نشاطا ، ساعات نومي طبيعية، لا أذكر أي مشاكل صحية تذكر
أما الآن .. حدث و لا حرج

و قد زاد الطين بله ،أنه عندما عدت لحميّا ، سافرت في عمل إلي امستردام ، و فوجئت بثلاجات ضحمة في المحلات للأطعمة النباتية، المقلية و المشوية و المقرمشه و السائلة

حزنت لما هو متاح في مصر
لكني مصر على العودة

شكرا على التذكير


تحية

 
At 4:25 PM, Blogger ahmad said...

يا توتا...
أنصح أن تبدئي الكتابة .. و مالكيش أي دعوة باللي بيجرى في عالم التدوين
ما تبصيش بره
أكتبي اللي نفسك فيه
في المجتمع الحقيقي اللي احنا عايشين فيه ، الواحد بيحاسب على كلامه ، و بيعمل حساب الجبهات ، و العائلات، و شكله و نظرة الناس
أما هنا .. الامر مختلف
هنا .. مساحة للتعبير بدون ما نتلفت حوالينا ، و من غير ما نحسبها
فما تفكريش
عبري عن نفسك و اعملي عكس ما مجتمعنا علمنا
اننا نتلم و نسكت:

تحية
------------
معتز
.. الامتحان سبع و لا ضبع؟

 
At 11:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

والله يا أخوي ما اعتقد انه في مشكلة لو أكلنا اللحم يعني
تخيل بس لو توقف العالم كله عن اكل اللحم راح يصير ضغط كبير على المصدر الغذائي النباتي من جهة الانسان اللي ماعد ياكل لحم والحيوان لان اعداد الحيوان اكل النبات راح يزيد نتيجة انصراف الناس عنه.

نقطة ثانية: انت قلت الاسلام دين الوسط, يعني لا افراط ولا تفريط , عندك الاسد عطيه حمار يقدر ياكله بس عطه موزة ما بيقدر ياكلها. ولا عندك حصان لو عطيته ارنب ما بيقدر ياكله بس عطه جزرة راح ياكلها وهو فرحان. لان هذي الفطرة والانسان نفس الشيء مفطور انه قاددر ياكل لحم ونبات في نفس الوقت من الناحية الفيزيائية, تشكيلة اسنان الحيوان اللاحم غير عن تشكيلة اسنان الحيوان النباتي اما الانسان فتشكيلة اسنانة عبارة عن تداخل بين الاثنين compination
لهذا فالانسان مفطور على اكل الاثنين باتباع الضوابط المحددة من الخالق طبعا.

فلا تأخذنا قضية الرفق بالحيوان الى الاغراق والامتناع عن اكل لحومها ولا يأخذنا الشره وحب الطعام الى استهلاك زائد عن الحد بما يؤدي للامراض

نقطة اخيرة: هناك معلومات مغلوطة تدعي ان البروتينات او ما نحتاجه من اللحوم موجود في اطعمة نباتية يمكنها ان تعطينا مقدارا مساويا لحاجتنا هذه
حقيقة هذه المعلومات غير صحيحة ببساطة لان جسم الانسان لا يستطيع هضمها من النبات بالسلاسة التي يهضمها من اللحوم وعادة لا يهضم منها سوى كمية بسيطة جدا. بامكانك الاطلاع على مناظرة الدكتور ذاكر نايك رئيس ISLAMIC RESEARCH FAUNDATION

مع احد الاطباء النباتيين
والتأكد من صحة هذه المعلومة.

ارجو منك اخي ان تتطلع على بواطن الامور لا على ظواهرها ومنذ فترة ليست بطويلة بدأت حركة النباتيين بالتراجع نتيجة لاكتشاف المغالطات التي تتضمنها الكتب والابحاث المكتوبة في هذا الصدد

 
At 3:22 AM, Blogger raafat said...

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At 10:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

حاليا طلب المظاهرة لدى السلطات بالادارة العامة لللاعلام و العلاقات بوزارة الداخلية سيتم تحديد المكان قبل السطات يوم الأحد صباحا

مظاهرة الجمعية المصرية لحماية حقوق الحيوانات

الاحتجاج الرسمي مخطط و منظم قبل الجمعية المصرية لحماية حقوق الحيوانات (المسجلة كجمعية خيرية بوزارة التضامن الاجتماعى الاجتماعية برقم 1615 لسنة 2001) و الناشطين المعنيين بالحفاظ على حقوق الحيوان متضمنين أصدقاء جمعية بيتا فى مصر.

تقام المظاهرة بتاريخ 11 مايو2007 الموافق الجمعة من الساعة الرابعة بعد الظهر حتى الخامسة.
سيقوم المتظاهرين بالتظاهر أمام وزارة . ستسلم طلبات التي تنادى بضرورة مراجعة الموقف الحكومي الذي يدعو إلى قتل الكلاب و القطط بالرصاص و التسميم، و النظر في تطبيق طريقة الاخصاء والتطعبم و التحرير بدلا من عمليات القتل العشوائية و التسميم (علما بأن هذه الطريقة طبقت في الهند و تم طلق 70ألف كلب بعد اخصائهم و تطعيمهم.. و ثبتت فاعلية هذه الطريقة )كذلك النظر في القانون المقدم منذ ثلاث سنوات الذي لم يحظى بالاهتمام المفروض كذلك وضع حد لممارسات القسوة على الحيوان.


الجمعية المصرية للحفاظ على حقوق الحيوان مستعدة للتعاون و التنسيق مع الجهات الحكومية من حيث إقرار عملية (اخصاء-تطعيم-تحرير) كذلك الجمعية على استعداد لتقديم برامج توعية للتعامل مع الحيوان و كذلك الجمعية مستعدة لتقديم العون للجهات الرسمية التي تحقق في بلاغات القسوة على الحيوان.


الهيئة التنظيمية للجمعية توجه نداء للأفراد المحبين للحيوان لمساندة هذه المظاهرة السلمية بالحضور. الحيوانات في حاجة إلى حمايتكم و لا يستطيعون ألمطالبه بالحماية لأنفسهم. كلما زاد عدد المساندين كلما وصلت أصواتنا. نطلب من الذين يرغبون في الحضور و المساندة إحضار لافتات، صور، تى شيرت تحمل صور حيوانات، شمع.. أو أي شيء يعطى مضمون الموضوع.
أرجوك لا تترك الموضوع لغيرك.. تعالى و شارك بنفسك و أوصل صوتك. فساعة واحدة قد تضحى بها من وقتك قد تشكل فارقا كبيرا في آلام و مأساة حيوان على وشك الإعدام.

المنظمين

أمينة أباظة (0123162912)
منى خليل (0122188823)
دينا ذوالفقار (0123476670)



Animal Protection Demonstration
This protest is being planned and organized by SOCIETY FOR ANIMAL RIGHTS PROTECTION IN EGYPT (registered as a charitable organization with the Egyptian Ministry of Social Affairs Registration No. 1615 (2001) and animal rights activists (animal lovers) including PETA's list in Cairo.
The demonstration will be held on 11th May at 4:00hrs at xx Square. The protesters will gather 4:00pm outside the ministry of xxxxxxxxxx. Letters will be handed to MP's calling on them to emphasize the importance of enforcement of the new animal welfare law submitted 3 years ago, and calling to stop cruel practice against animals and stopping the poisoning and dog shooting and applying instead the neuter/vaccine/release system which has previously been applied successfully in India, 70000 dogs have been neutered, vaccined and released. The many volunteer workers and supporters are concerned that the new legislation submitted since 2004 is not being treated with the seriousness it deserves. Many cases of animal cruelty continue to be reported with little evidence to date of prosecutions. The animal protection organization SPARE are willing to assist the police in investigating cases of animal cruelty, and arranging appropriate training for law enforcement officers.
The organizers are calling on all the countries animal lovers to support this peaceful demonstration and come and take part. They say that the animals need protection and they cannot demand it for themselves and the more people who support this, the louder the message will be. They also urge people to bring a banner, a poster, animal t-shirt, a candle or anything to make a visual impact.
Don’t leave it to others to come and protest, come yourself, and make your views known. After all what sacrifice is an hour of your time compared to the lifetime of suffering that some animals have to endure
Demonstration Organizers
Amina Abaza (0123162912)
Mona Khalil (0122188823)
Dina Zulfikar (0123476670)

 
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